Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15

You can’t go wrong with a mage. In fact, Mage was the most popular class in World of Warcraft: Classic due to their ability to farm with ease. Back in the day, the player majority even leveled mages as alts in order to gather gold quickly. In addition to their monstrous ranged DPS, mages also have tons of useful utility. As a mage, you’ll be able to conjure food and water, place portals to the major cities, and even earn gold from doing so.

I now have a Patreon Page where you guys can support me while I work on Vanilla WoW leveling guides every day.  I appreciate all of you who support me on there, it means a lot to me right now.  Doing this full time is taxing on my financial situation.  My goal is to make the best Vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web and the donations keep me going at it healthfully.  There is also cool rewards you get in return for donating.  Thanks!

Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7 Nov 15
Nov 15 Classic hit me like a truck I had no interest in it what so ever. After watching the blizzcon demo - I can’t stop thinking about it. The combat it’s so visceral. The world is so much bigger and so much more dangerous. Each fight reminded me of dark souls. I’ve been watching only classic and vanilla vids since blizzcon, it’s actually ruined retail for me. I was actually enjoying raiding in BFA but now I don’t want anything but to play classic and immerse myself in it. What is this sorcery? I heard vanilla wow was addictive, but really? I feel like I’m in withdrawal and I haven’t even played it yet. I think I’m in trouble once it releases. I don’t want to log into retail anymore :(Gripp204 Nov 15
Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15

Making "new" guides seems kinda out of place. Not only is there still alot of information from back then available, there came alot of information up for minmaxing available for both leveling and raiding, ontop of various bis gear lists that cover patch progression aswell if necessary. Wether people like or dislike pservers does not make the various information found on their forums less valuable.
15 Nov Please reconsider 2-in-1 subscription. Please note this is not a thread about hating on BfA players or tourists. I am happy they have their own game or might experience how vanilla was like (at very least rather similiar to what it was). However, the bundled subscription comes with extreme drawbacks to both Classic and BfA players: It gives Blizzard a reason to cut corners on both games Since their monetary gains will be lower, as you only need one sub to play either BfA or Classic. Remembering how Blizzard has operated for the past few years gives you a clear reason why Classic supposedly needs to have Sharding, Right Click Reporting, Loot Trading and many other "conviniences". Blizzard is not expecting to bank on Classic in the long term and so, will have it operate on a shoestring budget. BfA is in danger too. Always having Classic as a fallback lets Blizzard go WoD 2.0 on BfA (and possibly future expansions), seeing as there is always some content in the retro game to do. It makes Blizzard assume extremely low retention rate And that's not neccesarily incorrect either. Assuming most of the tourist crowd will log on launch, the absolute lack of convinience and lots of running compared to 'fun' activities will put them off, possibly before leaving the first zone. The problem begins if some tourists stay, since all mechanics put in place to stabilize overestimated populations will have to remain until people leave, which might become more and more unlikely as time goes on (especially since people flock to high pop servers). It makes Blizzard prioritize a controlled launch experience Let's not kid ourselves, this is to make that launch look GOOD. The problem arises when we realize we need lots to quit the game that 'flows perfectly for everyone' before they hit a wall. The absolute uncontained chaos of launch day is something epic to see, epic to be part of and I've seen quite a lot of people express the opinion that while Blizzard is trying to resolve a perceived problem, they are in fact erasing the experience that would be paid for. It negates the obvious gameplay possibility One subscription means you can be logged in on one character at any given point in time. Makes sense. However, bundling the subs would imply you wanted players to have fun in both games. Say, go onto a really long flight path in Classic and do your emmisary in BfA. Or the reverse - 2 hours until raid night in BfA with nothing to do? Jump onto your Classic character and run a dungeon. To actually be able to use a flight path in Classic and play BfA simultaneously, you need a second sub. Why bundle them if you need 2 subs anyway to enjoy both games in ways you are certain you would with a single sub, but would be DC'd off one character? It targets the wrong crowd Now this is purely anecdotal, and thus worthless from a statistical POV but I'm sure someone can relate. My tight-knit group of 10 friends in total was rather eager to play Classic (some of us playing Retail, some playing on vanilla emulators). Well, almost all of us. Only two of them weren't happy about it, one person being neutral as he doesn't care, and another being hostile and 'happy to have Vanilla players put into their own asylum'. With all the changes that Classic 'needs' implemented, we're not going to return as private servers are closer to the actual vanilla experience. Doubly so once Classic releases - Blizzard is putting all the numbers, spawn points and mechanics into private server devs' hands. The anti-Classic player is happy, since he gets to 'screw around and troll a bit' without paying a single extra dime. 5 potential resubs are gone. It may encourage trading Modern and Classic gold ... The solution There were many solutions given and all of them have drawbacks. I propose separating subs, and to enable a free 10-day trial a few weeks after launch. Tourists/nostalgia runs get their dose of Classic without impacting server populations since these should be stable already. Without paying extra, just like they would be with a shared sub. Meanwhile, Classic players might get the neccessary staff that we need to not have the retail systems pushed into Classic as means to reduce recurring costs.Yathri43 15 Nov
WoW: Classic is scheduled for August 27 (technically August 26 if you're in the Americas). The soonest that you can play it is starting in May, during Blizzard's scheduled stress tests. To opt-in you must have an active subscription on your Battle.net account. If you do, go to Account Management and select the Wow Classic beta. Keep in mind, there will be level caps during the test. The schedule is as follows:

As someone who's leveled enough Alliance and Horde characters to fill multiple accounts, it remains to be seen whether replaying content I've seen many times before will keep my attention in the long term. But even the thought that it might suggests that for many people, this could represent a novel experience compared to the modern game, something at least worth a try.


“We talked about it [making Classic] for a number of years and we couldn’t figure out what the right way to do it would be,” Brack explained. "The problem was, the codebase that shipped with WoW and encompassed the WoW Classic timeline was a codebase that we had really moved on from in subsequent years. Software is a very iterative process, and its development was more than 10 years in the past at this point. So thinking about the hardware that didn’t exist anymore that we would need to run on it, running two MMOs simultaneously with two different toolsets, two different toolchains, it was not something we could really get our head around.”
Travel Time is what you will be doing the most of, thus talents or abilities that increase movement speed will likely have the highest impact on leveling speed.The more important concept is this: Shaving off seconds of downtime between pulls is equally valuable to shaving off seconds of In Combat Time. When you think about it this way, Damage Mitigation and Regenerative talents / abilities / stats have almost offensive properties and should potentially be valued equally to stats that increase damage.
On August 27, veterans and newcomers will be able to relive World of Warcraft’s epic origins as they assemble a 40-player raid to take on the fiery hazards of Molten Core; fight for their faction in the ongoing world PvP struggle between Southshore and Tarren Mill; muster a realm-wide war effort to open the gates of Ahn’Qiraj; and much more. Click HERE to see the content release plan!
15 Nov [A] Ace of Spades is recruiting Ace of Spades is currently looking for a Raid Leader! We are looking for someone to take up the position of Raid Leader within Ace of Spades, Ace of Spades is a guild with raiding at its core, Ace of Spades within itself is always pushing for the best out of its members whether they are raiding with us or not. There are two parts to Ace of Spades comprising of its social wing which is what everyone joins as, unless they are applying strictly as a raider and its raiding department. And then we have the raiding wing whose members are aiming to always be the best that they can be whilst at the same time having fun with their friends both in and out of raids all with the mindset to help each other get to the next boss! What is expected of you as the Raid Leader: Making sure that everyone is knowledgeable on a tactic when facing a boss. Hosting the nights that the raid team is raiding. Making sure that Items are distributed fairly depending on DKP and so forth Resolving issues that arise within the raiding team that you can personally deal with [If unable to deal with them bring them to my notice as soon as possible so the issue can be resolved in a timely manner] To add and deduct correct amounts of DKP to all players within the raidWhat we look for within a Raid Leader: Knowledge of all the raids and the boss mechanics [Both current and coming out in a later patch]. The ability to communicate effectively with those in the raid team so they know what to do. Be able to talk with the people in the raid and keep a level head even when things go wrong and a wipe is forced. Experience within a leadership group [Preferably of a large group in a stressful situation]. Commitment to the raiding team as if you aren’t bothered neither will those who are raiding with you. Someone who has experience with the DKP looting system and can confidently add and deduct DKP when required. Someone who has the prior experience and raid knowledge to sort the raid teams into workable teams.If this sounds like you contact me via either Battlenet at: Devilgaming#2564 OR contact me via Discord at: Jester#6058. What we are also looking for: We are looking for both Social and Raiding players to join our Guild altogether, if you want to join and spend your time leveling up, doing dungeons or simply PvPing that is all fine as well simply contact me via the contact information above and we can get you set up! I hope to hear from you all soon.Calish4 15 Nov
The argument for this is simple: what makes classic WoW great to one player might be different from what makes it great for another. And who are Blizzard's designers to say which old features were just good or bad design for each player? It's an approach that shows Blizzard believes (at least to some degree) that WoW doesn't just belong to its creators but to its fans. That struggle between authorial intent or game design orthodoxy and "the player is always right" is at the heart of many of gaming's big contemporary controversies. But so far, Blizzard seems committed to its plan with regard to WoW Classic.
 ":"  -  Any time a step ends in a ":" instead of a "." means that the next step is part of the current step you are on.  This generally means the next step should be done while working on the current step.  This means every "start working on" or "continue working on" will end in a ":".  But this is used with other occasions as well, so keep this in mind.
Nov 15 Managing your time and Classic So how are you guys thinking you're going to do it? I know when I played Vannila, I sunk so much time into it as I didn't have any responsibilites. Nowadays I work 24 on, 48 off (which is actually good, except for raid days) and have a wife. I figure a lot of you will be in the same boat. That may be a good thing as it can slow the pace a bit.Crupzz4 Nov 15
This option is better to use at level 40+. Higher level you are is better, more money you make then. All you do is farming dungeons or specific bosses. Here you kill a few birds with one stone: you get lots of experience (make sure you have all quests in your quest log, always ask your teammates to share) if you are still leveling; improve your current gear; and loads of loot (clothes, recipes, even crappy grey items selling for a lot to a vendor). If you are in a group, think about your groupmates if they need an item or not, don’t roll need on everything.
15 Nov Progressive itemization and Stages all in one At Blizzcon they showed the 4 Content Stages : https://youtu.be/hhKkP8LryYM?t=2735 As you can see its their "Current thinking" - Meaning its not final. I think we can make it more "vanilla-like" by changing it to 6 Stages and incorporate Progressive Itemization. Lets fiddle with it! Proto-type: 1: - World of Warcraft (7th Nov. 2004 - Patch 1.1-1.1.2) MC (Launch gear) Onyxia Maraudon 2: Ruins of the Dire Maul (6th March 2005 - Patch 1.3-1.4.2) Dire Maul (World Buff and gear on par with early Raid gear) Azuregos Lord Kazak 3: Assault on Blackwing Lair (7th June 2005 - Patch 1.5-1.6.1) BWL PvP Rewards (which included epic PvP and PvE gear) Darkmoon Faire (World Buff and epic trinkets via Darkmoon Cards) Thorium Brotherhood Rep rewards 4 - Rise of the Blood God (13th Sep. 2005 - Patch 1.7-1.8.4) ZG (World Buff, Shoulder Enchants, Oils ect.) Green Dragons BG Weekends (Speeds up PvP rewards) Tier 0.5 (not sure) Upgraded MC gear 5 - The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj (3rd Jan 2006 - patch 1.9-1.10.2) AQ 20/40 Silithus content Upgraded PvP gear Upgraded and new Dungeon gear 6 - Shadow of the Necropolis (20th Jun 2006 - patch 1.11+) Naxx Scourge Invasion And the rest So, yeah - Please feel free to suggest changes. I probably missed something. Just remember that we (nor Blizzard) can get i 100% correct as it was - But we can get closer than those 4 Stages, thats for sure.Ståål19 15 Nov
I think that the token is a nice solution for the problem. Back in the days, blizzard tryed to ban gold sellers, but it was a lost cause. Instead, the token seems to have resolved the problem, letting workers that want to raid with consumables and stuffs to have the golds to do it. Personally, I don't find the gold buying really fair, but I understand that for many people is a necessity and I prefer to leave the economy and the farming spots to the player instead to the gold sellers. 

For some weird reason Warlock used to be underrepresented in vanilla WoW. However, the least popular doesn’t mean that they were bad. Warlocks had amazing damage and some truly unique utility abilities allowing them to summon players or create Healthstones for the whole group. Similarly to Hunters, Warlocks were amazing for solo players with the ability to summon various demons to help them.

Nov 15 Classic hit me like a truck I had no interest in it what so ever. After watching the blizzcon demo - I can’t stop thinking about it. The combat it’s so visceral. The world is so much bigger and so much more dangerous. Each fight reminded me of dark souls. I’ve been watching only classic and vanilla vids since blizzcon, it’s actually ruined retail for me. I was actually enjoying raiding in BFA but now I don’t want anything but to play classic and immerse myself in it. What is this sorcery? I heard vanilla wow was addictive, but really? I feel like I’m in withdrawal and I haven’t even played it yet. I think I’m in trouble once it releases. I don’t want to log into retail anymore :(Gripp204 Nov 15
Warrior should be a go-to choice for everyone who wants to get into the end game. Protection Warriors in Classic WoW were considered as one of the best tanks, Fury talent build was a great option for DPS while Arms were dominating PvP environment. However, Warriors’ strength relies on the character’s gear, which means that you might need to put some hours into finding the right items for your class. It is also worth mentioning, that Warrior might be one of the hardest classes to level up in World of Warcraft: Classic but rest assured, if you’ll manage to hit the level cap and find suitable gear, Warrior is one of the strongest classes in the game.
15 Nov A Guild of First-Timers This post is only meant to gauge interest for a guild of this kind, as the release of Classic is still a while off. I'm interested in starting or joining a guild of likeminded individuals, who want to play Classic WoW without [excessive] use of guides and/or foreknowledge. I began playing WoW towards the end of The Burning Crusade, so I never actually experienced Vanilla, though I did play on Nostalrius for a bit. A private server environment never appealed to me much though, but I am excited to experience the slower pace and more social aspects that Classic holds in store for us on official servers. What I really hope for, though, is the opportunity to discover things for myself and to learn and grow alongside other people who may have missed the early days. Of course, most (all?) people who will play Classic will have played WoW at some point before, and not all knowledge and memories can be wiped ("Wow, cool, a new town called Goldshire! I wonder what I can do here?"). This is ok, and I do not suggest dogmatically avoiding any kinds of guides at all costs. I do, however, feel like a general guideline like this could make for a fun experience. As a guild, we would strive to progress through dungeons and raids on our own, figuring out pitfalls and challenges as we go along. Naturally, this means that we wouldn't be particularly "hardcore", and speed would not be our primary objective. Instead, I suggest emphasis is placed on exploration and trial-and-error. I do not want to explicitly exclude people who have played Vanilla, all are welcome. That being said, if one were to have great knowledge of many encounters, it might defeat the purpose of this guild if it was just shared with everyone from the beginning. Likewise, if a knowledgeable person like that were to keep quiet on purpose, it might become frustrating for them to see the rest futilely derping around and missing something obvious. Personally, I have been trying to keep myself from binge watching all kinds of stuff about Classic WoW, precisely because I want to discover it for myself. Despite my efforts, I already know some things, and surely other people interested in this will as well; but I believe there may still be value in what I am proposing. Information should be shared freely in the Guild as well, of course. The intent is to grow as a group, not each wait for everyone to individually figure out where Gromsblood grows before sharing it with them. As a final note, I would be willing to be the guild leader, though I hope it would be a very democratic and non-hierarchical environment in general. I cannot, however, guarantee that I will have enough time to continue to fill that role in the future, and other obligations prevent me from playing outside evenings and weekends in general. As such, if anyone else is interested in taking up a leading role, let me know. First of all, though, is anyone interested in a guild like this in the first place? PS: In case it wasn't obvious from where I have posted this, I am from the EU region. Also, I currently intend to play Alliance as a faction, but am in principle open to the possibility of playing Horde instead.Toh16 15 Nov

15 Nov [A] Ace of Spades is recruiting Ace of Spades is currently looking for a Raid Leader! We are looking for someone to take up the position of Raid Leader within Ace of Spades, Ace of Spades is a guild with raiding at its core, Ace of Spades within itself is always pushing for the best out of its members whether they are raiding with us or not. There are two parts to Ace of Spades comprising of its social wing which is what everyone joins as, unless they are applying strictly as a raider and its raiding department. And then we have the raiding wing whose members are aiming to always be the best that they can be whilst at the same time having fun with their friends both in and out of raids all with the mindset to help each other get to the next boss! What is expected of you as the Raid Leader: Making sure that everyone is knowledgeable on a tactic when facing a boss. Hosting the nights that the raid team is raiding. Making sure that Items are distributed fairly depending on DKP and so forth Resolving issues that arise within the raiding team that you can personally deal with [If unable to deal with them bring them to my notice as soon as possible so the issue can be resolved in a timely manner] To add and deduct correct amounts of DKP to all players within the raidWhat we look for within a Raid Leader: Knowledge of all the raids and the boss mechanics [Both current and coming out in a later patch]. The ability to communicate effectively with those in the raid team so they know what to do. Be able to talk with the people in the raid and keep a level head even when things go wrong and a wipe is forced. Experience within a leadership group [Preferably of a large group in a stressful situation]. Commitment to the raiding team as if you aren’t bothered neither will those who are raiding with you. Someone who has experience with the DKP looting system and can confidently add and deduct DKP when required. Someone who has the prior experience and raid knowledge to sort the raid teams into workable teams.If this sounds like you contact me via either Battlenet at: Devilgaming#2564 OR contact me via Discord at: Jester#6058. What we are also looking for: We are looking for both Social and Raiding players to join our Guild altogether, if you want to join and spend your time leveling up, doing dungeons or simply PvPing that is all fine as well simply contact me via the contact information above and we can get you set up! I hope to hear from you all soon.Calish4 15 Nov


Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7 Nov 15
Since WoW Classic server has been announced at Blizzcon 2017, there is not much info about the server revealed. It is known that the upcoming expansion Battle for Azeroth pre-order has been available at blizzard shop, and the system requirements of Mac and Windows has been unveiled Recently, Forbes has an interview with J. Allen Brack and Jeremy Feasel about the project and some of the vision that developers have. 
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