In this form, there is much less wasted space and spells are no longer limited to three effects. But before we can load any database data, we need to transform the old data layout into the new one. This is not limited to spells, as almost every game system (including items, creatures, player characters, spawning, AI, and more) has had its database layout altered over the years.
...but, in my experiences, I found dual wielding to be fine. But only if you're Fury. I found that having two weapon swings meant having twice as many chances to crit, which led to lots more Flurry procs. At level 50 with two blue 1h swords, my kill speed was just about the same as when I used an epic 2h axe. And I wasn't even specced into the offhand damage talent. If I got a good string of crits, I could smack mobs down in 15-20 seconds, and easily hit Bloodthirst every time it came off CD.

Nov 15 Looking Forward. So simple fun thread to see how you all think and feel. Name 1 thing you are definitely looking forward to, preferably not the obvious stuff but whatever go wild! I'll start with one. Professions aiding in immersion. Not sure if many noticed this but something I am excited about playing a hunter is the professions and how they aid in immersion for the hunter class so freaking well. All of the secondary profs help hunter immersion. Cooking, Fishing and First Aid all actually fueled the hunter lifestyle. Add in Skinning and Leather Working and it's straight up Hunter RPG.Melaned22 Nov 15


14 Nov All we wanted was Vanilla Nothing more and nothing less - And we are almost there! Now we just need to get rid the last two things: 1) Sharding 2) Loot Trading And adjust the 4 Stages to 6ish Stages. We are so close, but im beginning to see the same trend I saw back in TBC/Wrath. Back then we called them Casuals, Treehuggers and Crybabies. Later they became Wrathbabies and god knows what they are called now. They are not bad people - They just want it to be Casual/Non time-consuming ect. They asked for better gear and got Welfare Epics in TBC. They wanted to see all the content and got LFR. Slowly chipping away at the game until we have BfA today. And now they are back! They want an easy launch via. Sharding - just for a few days. Chip Chip And just in a few zones - CHIP CHIP CHIP Or maybe some dynamic respawn? CHOP CHOP CHOP And all we wanted was Vanilla.Ståål18 14 Nov
15 Nov question about hunter So i saw this leveling guide for hunter in classic and it seems like u need some kind of addon to track ur auto shot. So my question is how did auto shot work back then? did u have to stand still to be able to shoot auto shots? and did like using arcane shot reset the timer of auto shot wich means if u are 1 sec from an auto shot but uses arcane instead u get new 3 sec (or whatever the wep speed is) before an auto shot is fired? thanksCirluica29 15 Nov
Blood: Unholy Command -  Your Death Grip has two charges. Frost: Chill Streak - Deals up to 6% of the target's total health in Frost damage and reduces their movement speed by 70% for 4 sec. Chill Streak bounces up to 9 times between closest targets within 6 yards. Unholy: Necrotic Strike - A vicious strike that deals [ 30% of Attack Power ] Plague damage, and converts 1 Festering Wounds into a Necrotic Wound, absorbing up to 7% of the target's maximum health in healing recieved. Demon Hunter
Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7 Nov 15
14 Nov Some thoughts about sharding,loot-trading etc As stated in an earlier post (https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17619571827), I didn't start playing the game until Jan./Feb. 2006, so my own experience with Vanilla is limited (compared to many others in the community). I do however want Classic to be as close to Vanilla as it can possibly be. (Disclaimer; I do admit I haven't gone too deep into all the topics, in regards to the implications of implementing such and such. These are just a random dude's thoughts about an upcoming revamp I'm really hyped about.) -Updated graphics and new models; I don't really have a problem with either. I think. I mean, it's not a deal-breaker for me, but I would prefer the old-school stuff. Currently playing on a potato, so I don't really know what updated graphics are anyways. :p -Sharding; no. Server-crashes (or login-queues) will always be preferable to sharding. Obviously nobody wants server-crashes or login-queues, but unlike sharding, it's not game-breaking. And besides, when the game comes out it will be 2019... are Blizzard saying they don't have the tech. to create sharding-free, non-hyperlaggy servers? I hear talks about how private servers manage to do it, so it will obviously be a non-issue for Blizzard to also do it... right? -Server-population; 3k-ish? Not sure tbh, but it should be (as with most other things) as close to Vanilla as possible. -Server-mergers; Don't really know how I feel about this, I just have more questions. Inevitably people will drop off, re-roll/switch servers etc., so what will happen with the "dead" servers? -Debuff-limit; 8 at launch. I don't really have an opinion on when 16 should be implemented, but it should be 8 at launch. -Loot-trading; a HUGE no-no! Not only was this not in Vanilla, this will 100% be abused. I can understand the point Frostadamus and others have made, that it could be used in raids but not dungeons, but there is no actual need for it to be implemented. -Progressive itemization; yes. This topic goes over my head, so I'll leave it up to the smart people to figure it out. But yes. -Content release; I like/agree with Esfand; ... -Classic being Classic; to borrow from a YT-comment (Michael Pate); "No one completed BWL unless they had completed MC. No one completed AQ40 who had not completed BWL. No one completed Naxx who had not completed AQ40." For some reason I see a lot of people who really hate this, that they can't just hit max level and jump right into a raid and expect to kill bosses. (You know, there are these pre-raid BiS-lists out there...) They also talk about tuning raids, balancing classes (and melee vs. casters) etc. I don't get it. This is supposed to be Classic, so the classes/roles will obviously not be balanced, nor should they be. Being out-healed by other classes, or out-dps'd? Yes, you will be. You personally may not top the meters, but the guild/raid will progress, and that's the point. Needing resistance-gear for specific encounters? Naturally (pun intended). Getting a fancy cloak to shield you from a terrible fire-breathing dragon? (points to you if you get the movie-reference) Definitely. Getting specific items in order to down a specific boss is a good thing, and in order to progress/complete a specific raid, you should have gathered enough gear/skill/experience from the previous raid(s). But if you are unable to leave your e-peen at the login-screen, you need to find a very hardcore raid(or pvp)guild, or I fear you will not enjoy Classic. Non-hardcore (and/or non-fanatical) guilds won't have a problem with hybrid specs joining their ranks, but all of this is subjective. Play the class/spec you want to play. If you hate tanking, don't play a tank. You should definitely try it out at some point, as with healing, but this is a game after all, it is supposed to be fun. So play the way you want to play, with people you want to play with, who has no problem with you playing the class/role you want to play. No matter your desire or playstyle, there will always be others out there who share your insanity/quirks. Great minds think alike and all that. :) I'm sure there are things I've forgotten to write about, misunderstood etc. Thankfully there are lots of more knowledgeable players out there who are also better at explaining why they think the way they think. But again, these are just my random thoughts on some topics. -Rychaq-Rychaq5 14 Nov
15 Nov Wall jump and moonwalk in classic It's been reported by demo players that you currently can't "moonwalk" or wall jump in classic wow, along with many other non-vanilla like mechanics. This isn't a big surprise since the game is based off of the BFA client and is far from being done, but it brings up some concerns. As said on the classic wow panel, they're trying to get "as close as possible" to vanilla. This might be good enough when it comes to things like graphics or zones configuration, but not when it comes to things like player movement. I'm worried that the game is always gonna feel like an imitation of vanilla rather than the real thing because of the BFA base. Are there any plans to make sure things like wall jumping and moonwalking are in the game?Ruftvess29 15 Nov
"People are asking to be able to go back and play WoW Classic as it was," Birmingham said. "We wanted to create this, almost like a snapshot in time, but we do want have these progressive content unlocks. So things like, Blackwind Lair, and Ahn'Qiraj, and Naxxramas. We want those to unlock over time, as the community is ready for them, as they progress through those various pieces of content. At the same time the systems overall we want to lock in at 1.12, where we feel like they were the most complete and balanced."
The argument for this is simple: what makes classic WoW great to one player might be different from what makes it great for another. And who are Blizzard's designers to say which old features were just good or bad design for each player? It's an approach that shows Blizzard believes (at least to some degree) that WoW doesn't just belong to its creators but to its fans. That struggle between authorial intent or game design orthodoxy and "the player is always right" is at the heart of many of gaming's big contemporary controversies. But so far, Blizzard seems committed to its plan with regard to WoW Classic.
An extremely rare herb, one is needed for each flask that an alchemist crafts.  Only one black lotus is up at a time, and it can be found in Silithus (one north of AQ gates, one in crystal vale) and Winterspring (one at Mazthoril blue dragon area, and one south of the main road in the western Furblog area).  Apparently also one in Eastern Plaguelands, I never saw it.
14 Nov Pserver mechanics So, like a bunch of people here, I played Vanilla on release. Quit after TBC, and only ever picked up the game again in the Pserver scene, which was cool, but I think there are a lot of misconceptions regarding things that work a certain way on private, and never did on live. I think it'd be good if we made a list of differences, to sort this out. 1. Sitting to trigger crit mechanics works on P, didn't on vanilla. 2. Frontstabbing is a thing on P, wasn't on vanilla (I think). 3. Melee DPS is always way higher on P. 4. Warrior charge has always behaved oddly on mangos core 5. The current trend in Pservers is getting 4-5 ony kills per lockout by having 35 people die and leave before the ki ll. Was this possible back then? And so on. Anyone wanna add to the list?Visgoth27	14 Nov

Nov 15 Managing your time and Classic So how are you guys thinking you're going to do it? I know when I played Vannila, I sunk so much time into it as I didn't have any responsibilites. Nowadays I work 24 on, 48 off (which is actually good, except for raid days) and have a wife. I figure a lot of you will be in the same boat. That may be a good thing as it can slow the pace a bit.Crupzz4 Nov 15
14 Nov Alternative to sharding? Both Tips out and Preach have suggested in videos a solution that may ensure a good launch experience, without the use of sharding. And i think they might be on to something! I tried to look it up on the forum to vote, but dint find any, so posting this. The idea is that Blizzard at launch can release multiple servers with the intent that at later stage merge them. e.g Sargeras 1 - _ Sargeras 2 - _ > Sargeras Sargeras 3 - I can see that sharding is practical, but it removes some immersion and might even be destructive to the community! I think this sounds like a good middle road. Preachs video https://youtu.be/BpdfIBt0Zs0?t=1039Stora27 14 Nov

15 Nov Everything wrong in Demo - listed Dont worry cuz its just a demo. We only saw 4 levels and 2 zones. LOL. General Issues -Items with random attributes show stats from newer expansions (Ex. Critical strike rating) (items rarely had crit or hit rating, and it was always in % example ) - Damage number fonts and size is from WoD, the original was from Vanilla->MoP (The position of the damage as well as the "pop" of crits is different aswell. Also, the CT was changed slightly even during MOP. In MOP the crits were still "poppy", but they always showed up in a uniform line) - Sharding (they have already made a statement about sharding. But i still note it here) - Example of sharding problems - https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyCrunchyBunnyPermaSmug - You can use meeting stones to summon people (added in tbc Patch 2.0.1 Source ) - You cant jump in water, you rise/swim when pressing space - Mob packs (ex. the defias camps on the mountain in Westfall) seems to be linked, so you cant pull 1 and run back, all 3 will follow forever, if 1 drops aggro they all reset (Not sure if this is blizzlike or not, Blizz would have to check the referance 1.12 client) The way you kite mobs in classic does not work in the demo, Probably a problem with the mob AI? - Cant abuse the walking animation to get a "moonwalk" Animation (would be sad to leave out such an iconic thing from the old engine) - Wand attacks cause you to face the target - You can use bnet to whisper members of the enemy faction - Might still be some problems where mobs spawn/error between the db/world. Reports of mobs spawning under the map - Mobs fanning is implemented incorrectly, they are walking backwards instead of turning around to adjust positions. - After using a flight path I was flagged as "player vs all" (like in gurubashi arena) and was able to attack players with the same bug - The graveyard at moonbrook, westfall doesn't have vultures. It should. - Rare mobs deals way less damage then they used too (hit like 25 some of them) - Chests has less green drops then they used too (40% of the time currently) - Spell Batching is not implemented because of the post cata engine. Big impact on PvP. - Kobolds at the Jangolode Mine in West fall, when low health and running away from you, run at much faster speed than even normal walking. They should walk away. - defias mobs in Jangolode mine (maybe other mobs as well?) Don't run back and attack again if they are low health and start running away from you. I think they should start attacking you again after ~8 seconds or so of running away - Corpses seem to despawn very quickly. I can kill a mob, loot it, and turn away and it'll be gone within 10 seconds. - Mobs sometimes spawn underneath terrain and glitch/evade--for example, hyenas sometimes spawned underneath hills near Centaur camps, and the Sludge Beast rare spawn near the Venture Co. tower in the Barrens would be stuck underground and evade combat. (Oddly, starting the nearby shredder escort quest caused it to suddenly become unstuck and teleport near the shredder, engaging in combat) - It seemed like mobs were dropping way too much money. I don't remember getting 30 copper per Westfall defias mob, but maybe the memory is just fuzzy. But I really shouldn't have had over a gold and be nearing 2 gold by level 16. So money drops, rewards, or vendor sell prices for items are way too high. Confirmed by old Client. - Farmer Saldean just dropped this line of dialogue on approach: "They might have run all the other farmers off, but the Saldean's will never leave Westfall." Pretty sure that's Cata dialogue. Never seen him talk before.Uauu105 15 Nov


15 Nov Changing sides As an old Horde player starting from the end of Vanilla, I've experienced a lot of content Horde-side and grew a bit tired of it. Now I'm torn between 2 options: 1) Recreating character that I had (this mage, actually, who's name was Xoljin before the transfer) to bathe in that nostalgia. 2) Changing a faction to get new experience. I guess there are other old-timers with the same stories, so what do you guys think? Another question, since I can't remember: was it possible to create characters of both factions on PvE and RP servers? What about RP-PvP?Арканист7 15 Nov
Sorry! No addons (unless some are made specifically for the new release of Warcraft Classic). Also, Bidding Is A Thing.  There were bidding wars for the most expensive items on the AH, which you can only find in IF and Org. There might be bidding wars for the rarest of items on trade chat or the realm forums, for things such as the Hide of the Wild pattern. This drops from Dire Maul, Knot Thimblejack, by the way.
15 Nov DM solo. A necessary change I'm an advocate for as few changes as possible, however something HAVE to be done about DM solo farming. DM solo farming was not a huge issue in 2005, because few people knew, and took advantage of the possibility. In 2018, and come 2019, it's a HUGE problem. The DM solo farm is well known and documented, with guides, and if nothing is done it will spread like wildfire. We dont know what the server populations will be, but lets start a thought experiment here; A full server have 2500 people online Hunter is the 4th most played class, behind warrior, mage and rogue. Data from private servers show a stunning consistency that around 12% of all characters are hunters. 0,12*2500=300 hunters. 300 Hunters are online on a full server at all times. Not all of them are max level at all times, and not all of them would solo farm DM, lets say one third of them do. Thats 100 hunters making 100g per hour, most of that is from vendoring trash. In other words 10000 gold is added to the server economy every-hour OUT OF THIN AIR Its far worse than controlling the devilsaur leathers, because those have to be sold to other players. If there is 2 players on a server, each with one gold, player A sells a devilsaur leather for 1g to player B, the purchasing power between players have shifted, but the server economy is still 2gold. If change is not implemented in stopping hunters and mages from solo farming DM, the economy will be completely inflated in a matter of a few weeks.Apoxxit97	15 Nov 

PHASED CONTENT ROLLOUT – Following its launch, World of Warcraft Classic’s content will be released over the course of multiple phases reflecting the game’s original order. Re-experience WoW history unfolding as heroes gear up for Blackwing Lair; players battle for PvP Honor and Rank rewards; and entire realms band together to open the gates of Ahn’Qiraj.
Mobs out in the open world generally have higher movement speed and higher attack speed than you. If you were to stand still and trade hits with a mob back and forth you may end up trading 1 of your Auto attacks for 2+ of theirs. If executed properly, The Hamstring Method allows you to trade 1 hit for 1 hit with a target, drastically reducing your damage taken while not reducing your damage at all since you are monitoring your natural auto attacks with the swing timer.
I think that the token is a nice solution for the problem. Back in the days, blizzard tryed to ban gold sellers, but it was a lost cause. Instead, the token seems to have resolved the problem, letting workers that want to raid with consumables and stuffs to have the golds to do it. Personally, I don't find the gold buying really fair, but I understand that for many people is a necessity and I prefer to leave the economy and the farming spots to the player instead to the gold sellers.

I joined twitch in 2013 with the gamer name of FuriousPaul and I streamed speedruns of the classic Castlevania games from 2013 - 2017. Lately my streams have died down quite a bit due to working on Classic WoW leveling guides every day.  Although I may come on occasionally and play a random game for fun on my Twitch stream.  I talk a lot about WoW speedrunning on my channel, so feel free to follow and hang out to discuss vanilla WoW if you like.  Classic WoW will be my main focus for a long time.  Unfortunately I will have to wait until Classic WoW comes out before I start streaming it.


I received a beta invite for Classic, and had also been an alpha and beta tester for the original game 15 years ago. That isn't unique; plenty of people in Northshire Valley had had the same experience, suggesting to me that active players who were Day 1 WoW gamers or had participated in the original tests might have gotten priority invitations to this one.
15 Nov Please reconsider 2-in-1 subscription. Please note this is not a thread about hating on BfA players or tourists. I am happy they have their own game or might experience how vanilla was like (at very least rather similiar to what it was). However, the bundled subscription comes with extreme drawbacks to both Classic and BfA players: It gives Blizzard a reason to cut corners on both games Since their monetary gains will be lower, as you only need one sub to play either BfA or Classic. Remembering how Blizzard has operated for the past few years gives you a clear reason why Classic supposedly needs to have Sharding, Right Click Reporting, Loot Trading and many other "conviniences". Blizzard is not expecting to bank on Classic in the long term and so, will have it operate on a shoestring budget. BfA is in danger too. Always having Classic as a fallback lets Blizzard go WoD 2.0 on BfA (and possibly future expansions), seeing as there is always some content in the retro game to do. It makes Blizzard assume extremely low retention rate And that's not neccesarily incorrect either. Assuming most of the tourist crowd will log on launch, the absolute lack of convinience and lots of running compared to 'fun' activities will put them off, possibly before leaving the first zone. The problem begins if some tourists stay, since all mechanics put in place to stabilize overestimated populations will have to remain until people leave, which might become more and more unlikely as time goes on (especially since people flock to high pop servers). It makes Blizzard prioritize a controlled launch experience Let's not kid ourselves, this is to make that launch look GOOD. The problem arises when we realize we need lots to quit the game that 'flows perfectly for everyone' before they hit a wall. The absolute uncontained chaos of launch day is something epic to see, epic to be part of and I've seen quite a lot of people express the opinion that while Blizzard is trying to resolve a perceived problem, they are in fact erasing the experience that would be paid for. It negates the obvious gameplay possibility One subscription means you can be logged in on one character at any given point in time. Makes sense. However, bundling the subs would imply you wanted players to have fun in both games. Say, go onto a really long flight path in Classic and do your emmisary in BfA. Or the reverse - 2 hours until raid night in BfA with nothing to do? Jump onto your Classic character and run a dungeon. To actually be able to use a flight path in Classic and play BfA simultaneously, you need a second sub. Why bundle them if you need 2 subs anyway to enjoy both games in ways you are certain you would with a single sub, but would be DC'd off one character? It targets the wrong crowd Now this is purely anecdotal, and thus worthless from a statistical POV but I'm sure someone can relate. My tight-knit group of 10 friends in total was rather eager to play Classic (some of us playing Retail, some playing on vanilla emulators). Well, almost all of us. Only two of them weren't happy about it, one person being neutral as he doesn't care, and another being hostile and 'happy to have Vanilla players put into their own asylum'. With all the changes that Classic 'needs' implemented, we're not going to return as private servers are closer to the actual vanilla experience. Doubly so once Classic releases - Blizzard is putting all the numbers, spawn points and mechanics into private server devs' hands. The anti-Classic player is happy, since he gets to 'screw around and troll a bit' without paying a single extra dime. 5 potential resubs are gone. It may encourage trading Modern and Classic gold ... The solution There were many solutions given and all of them have drawbacks. I propose separating subs, and to enable a free 10-day trial a few weeks after launch. Tourists/nostalgia runs get their dose of Classic without impacting server populations since these should be stable already. Without paying extra, just like they would be with a shared sub. Meanwhile, Classic players might get the neccessary staff that we need to not have the retail systems pushed into Classic as means to reduce recurring costs.Yathri43 15 Nov
15 Nov What classes will be rare/common? Given that with Wow Classic, players will have the benefit of hindsight, what classes will be oversubscribed and which will be rare? I prefer playing spellcasters and would love to go mage, but it would be a bit boring if there were loads of other mages around. Seems like there might be. What's a good compromise, lock?Ballam37 15 Nov
Nov 15 Little Test on Class Quest Rewards Hey guys, I did a little test on certain class rewards to check whether they are adequate or not for the level they are obtainable. Paladin - Verigan's Fist is a famous weapon, added probably during the Naxx patch and lot of paladins remember lasting it for long time. Obtainable level is like 22, with party of same level players. And the Mace is equivalent to a level 26 Blue Mace. This means it's not bad! Warrior - Brutal Hauberk is infamous warrior chest. It is obtainable at level 20(as I remember), but it requires running a level 28+ dungeon. And it's mediocre - it compares to a level 24 blue, which is stupid. Whirlwind Axe is a famous warrior weapon which requires a nanny. :D You get level 30 and then pay people money or beg them to help you. This is not even doable with normal party until 35ish. Whirlwind Axe is equivalent to a 35 level Blue Axe, which is decent but still seems to be forcing it. Unless you hire a nanny, being social will probably help you get it at around 35-36 with similar level players. Warlock - Enchanted Gold Bloodrobe is pretty famous. I am not sure when it is exactly doable but is comparable to a level 35ish Robe. I think the verdict is that Paladin's Hammer is by far the best and the reason for it is that it was added later, at the end of vanilla, when Blizzard had more brains. :DHolylr1 Nov 15
14 Nov WoW Classic BlizzCon Demo Pre-Download Hi everyone! We’re incredibly excited for you all to get your hands on the WoW Classic BlizzCon demo next week, and to help make things as smooth as possible, we’re making the client available to download for Virtual Ticket holders starting today. Over the next 24 hours, we’ll be enabling the ability to download the WoW Classic demo through the Battle.net app for players who have purchased the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket, as well as standard BlizzCon ticket holders who have added their Virtual Goodies code to their Battle.net account. If you don’t see the option to install the demo right away, don’t worry – you’ll still have plenty of time to download the client before the demo goes live during BlizzCon next week. We can’t wait for you to get a peek at what we’ve been working on, and hope you enjoy this preview of what’s to come!Lore53 14 Nov

The Horde levels 50-60 guide has been rewritten and revamped.  My 1-60 Horde leveling guide is now completely updated for the 1.12 Drums of War patch.  As you can see it is about 15% larger than the 40-50 guide (single largest guide page yet).  There is also a lot of route changes.  I moved the entire Silithus section from level 55 to level 58, which allowed me to include a lot more quests for that zone.  There is also a lot of other improvement to the route, including adding a lot more quests into the guide, mostly from Moonglade, Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands.  This will make the final level 59 grind much shorter.

This is for those who want to own a piece of Vanilla WoW history!  This tier requires your physical mailing address so I can mail you the printed paperback binded mini leveling guide/book.  By default I will sign "Joana" on each book!  If you wish for me to write something else out (such as my real name) you can request that as well.  And finally, thank you for the support and I will continue to make the best leveling guides for WoW!
Always sell all items on Auction House. If you are not sure about its value, then check the market. There are some risks that item won’t be sold and you will lose money just putting it on Auction House. Good idea to make bank low level characters and keep everything there until the weekend. All sales increasing on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Besides, you can advertise in a trade channel to inform people that an item you are selling has been put on Auction House.
×