I think that the token is a nice solution for the problem. Back in the days, blizzard tryed to ban gold sellers, but it was a lost cause. Instead, the token seems to have resolved the problem, letting workers that want to raid with consumables and stuffs to have the golds to do it. Personally, I don't find the gold buying really fair, but I understand that for many people is a necessity and I prefer to leave the economy and the farming spots to the player instead to the gold sellers.

And for talent builds. I prefer to make my own talent builds. But I've been playing RPGs since the 8bit days so half the fun is building my own characters up. I already made and bookmarked 1 deep fire mage build, 2 elemental mage builds, and 2 deep frost mage builds. And I might remake them tomorrow if I read up on any good talent choices I left out my 1st 5 times lol. And I have multiple builds for the other classes I play too.
15 Nov What classes will be rare/common? Given that with Wow Classic, players will have the benefit of hindsight, what classes will be oversubscribed and which will be rare? I prefer playing spellcasters and would love to go mage, but it would be a bit boring if there were loads of other mages around. Seems like there might be. What's a good compromise, lock?Ballam37 15 Nov

Druid is one of the most versatile classes across all of World of Warcraft Classic. By picking Druid you will have plenty of options to choose from while leveling. However, in the end-game, most groups will expect you to heal, though, Feral and Balance druids are also very desirable for their Innervate and Rebirth abilities. Additionally, various animal forms will make traversing the world into quite an uncomplicated task.


The primary goal of Conflict and Strife is to provide an interesting choice in PvP by allowing access to an extra PvP Talent. It’s not necessarily going to be a strong option for PvE. The acquisition of this Essence is via PvP, and is totally optional for PvE-focused players. While there may be interesting PvE uses for some of the choices, it is not expected to be a strong competitor on usual PvE criteria (like total throughput) on every spec.
Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15
Even though the guide was developed with a hunter, the guide can be followed by any class.  Except you have to do your class's quests which aren't a whole lot.  I do have full intention to make my guide friendly with all classes in the future by listing all of their steps as well.  There will be a toggle that allows you to show which class's steps you want to see in the guide.  But this is coming later.
15 Nov US players on EU Hi everyone, I’m the leader of a gaming community on Discord and am based in the EU. Members of my community are US based and when classic lands we want to ensure we are all playing together on EU servers. I haven’t played retail for a while but have been informed that it’s now subscription only (no need to purchase expansions anymore, please correct me if I’m wrong) to play the most recent content. Can someone please tell me if we will encounter any issues with US players logging in to EU servers? They already have US accounts so it seems unrealistic to expect them to have to buy an EU copy to play classic on EU servers. Sorry if this isn’t making sense. Any info you can provide would be appreciated. Also - are there any channels in existence for recruitment purposes? (I plan in advance)Ashala10 15 Nov
15 Nov Please reconsider 2-in-1 subscription. Please note this is not a thread about hating on BfA players or tourists. I am happy they have their own game or might experience how vanilla was like (at very least rather similiar to what it was). However, the bundled subscription comes with extreme drawbacks to both Classic and BfA players: It gives Blizzard a reason to cut corners on both games Since their monetary gains will be lower, as you only need one sub to play either BfA or Classic. Remembering how Blizzard has operated for the past few years gives you a clear reason why Classic supposedly needs to have Sharding, Right Click Reporting, Loot Trading and many other "conviniences". Blizzard is not expecting to bank on Classic in the long term and so, will have it operate on a shoestring budget. BfA is in danger too. Always having Classic as a fallback lets Blizzard go WoD 2.0 on BfA (and possibly future expansions), seeing as there is always some content in the retro game to do. It makes Blizzard assume extremely low retention rate And that's not neccesarily incorrect either. Assuming most of the tourist crowd will log on launch, the absolute lack of convinience and lots of running compared to 'fun' activities will put them off, possibly before leaving the first zone. The problem begins if some tourists stay, since all mechanics put in place to stabilize overestimated populations will have to remain until people leave, which might become more and more unlikely as time goes on (especially since people flock to high pop servers). It makes Blizzard prioritize a controlled launch experience Let's not kid ourselves, this is to make that launch look GOOD. The problem arises when we realize we need lots to quit the game that 'flows perfectly for everyone' before they hit a wall. The absolute uncontained chaos of launch day is something epic to see, epic to be part of and I've seen quite a lot of people express the opinion that while Blizzard is trying to resolve a perceived problem, they are in fact erasing the experience that would be paid for. It negates the obvious gameplay possibility One subscription means you can be logged in on one character at any given point in time. Makes sense. However, bundling the subs would imply you wanted players to have fun in both games. Say, go onto a really long flight path in Classic and do your emmisary in BfA. Or the reverse - 2 hours until raid night in BfA with nothing to do? Jump onto your Classic character and run a dungeon. To actually be able to use a flight path in Classic and play BfA simultaneously, you need a second sub. Why bundle them if you need 2 subs anyway to enjoy both games in ways you are certain you would with a single sub, but would be DC'd off one character? It targets the wrong crowd Now this is purely anecdotal, and thus worthless from a statistical POV but I'm sure someone can relate. My tight-knit group of 10 friends in total was rather eager to play Classic (some of us playing Retail, some playing on vanilla emulators). Well, almost all of us. Only two of them weren't happy about it, one person being neutral as he doesn't care, and another being hostile and 'happy to have Vanilla players put into their own asylum'. With all the changes that Classic 'needs' implemented, we're not going to return as private servers are closer to the actual vanilla experience. Doubly so once Classic releases - Blizzard is putting all the numbers, spawn points and mechanics into private server devs' hands. The anti-Classic player is happy, since he gets to 'screw around and troll a bit' without paying a single extra dime. 5 potential resubs are gone. It may encourage trading Modern and Classic gold ... The solution There were many solutions given and all of them have drawbacks. I propose separating subs, and to enable a free 10-day trial a few weeks after launch. Tourists/nostalgia runs get their dose of Classic without impacting server populations since these should be stable already. Without paying extra, just like they would be with a shared sub. Meanwhile, Classic players might get the neccessary staff that we need to not have the retail systems pushed into Classic as means to reduce recurring costs.Yathri43 15 Nov

14 Nov Loot trading is fine It's funny, I've heard that loot trading is bad because it encourages ninja looting, and also that it's bad because it reduces the chances of ninja looting. If you get 3 of your friends to roll on an item, specifically so you can get it, congratulations, you have reached the pinnacle of what an MMO stands for and certainly deserve the item much more than the other person. This can also be done without loot trading, by everyone rolling, and then making a ticket to transfer it over to your friend that really needed it. Takes a lot longer, and Blizzard has to divert time and resources into it. Why wouldn't they crowdsource a personal problem? If someone rolls on an item that they don't need, wins it and decides to try and sell you the item? Now is the time to tell all your friends to avoid that person. Oh you don't have any friends? I guess you have to make some then? This is what an MMO is all about. Since everyone is on the same realm in Classic, your reputation matters. Sure, you can fool people by just leveling another character, but that takes a long time in Classic. Most people decide it's not worth it to be a dick.Monkehh48 14 Nov


Nov 15 Classic hit me like a truck I had no interest in it what so ever. After watching the blizzcon demo - I can’t stop thinking about it. The combat it’s so visceral. The world is so much bigger and so much more dangerous. Each fight reminded me of dark souls. I’ve been watching only classic and vanilla vids since blizzcon, it’s actually ruined retail for me. I was actually enjoying raiding in BFA but now I don’t want anything but to play classic and immerse myself in it. What is this sorcery? I heard vanilla wow was addictive, but really? I feel like I’m in withdrawal and I haven’t even played it yet. I think I’m in trouble once it releases. I don’t want to log into retail anymore :(Gripp204 Nov 15
And for talent builds. I prefer to make my own talent builds. But I've been playing RPGs since the 8bit days so half the fun is building my own characters up. I already made and bookmarked 1 deep fire mage build, 2 elemental mage builds, and 2 deep frost mage builds. And I might remake them tomorrow if I read up on any good talent choices I left out my 1st 5 times lol. And I have multiple builds for the other classes I play too.
Nov 15 Dual Boxing in Classic I was seriously thinking about being a masochist and playing a paladin in classic but then I wondered if dual boxing will still be possible in classic with the change in engines running the game. I've never dual boxed so will have to research how it works. However, it hit me that I can dual box a warrior and a priest then transfer the priest to my main account at 60 so I will have the best tank and best healer in the game to play around with. Anyone else planning on doing this and have any good resources to start learning about it?Twiinkedd6 Nov 15
15 Nov DM solo. A necessary change I'm an advocate for as few changes as possible, however something HAVE to be done about DM solo farming. DM solo farming was not a huge issue in 2005, because few people knew, and took advantage of the possibility. In 2018, and come 2019, it's a HUGE problem. The DM solo farm is well known and documented, with guides, and if nothing is done it will spread like wildfire. We dont know what the server populations will be, but lets start a thought experiment here; A full server have 2500 people online Hunter is the 4th most played class, behind warrior, mage and rogue. Data from private servers show a stunning consistency that around 12% of all characters are hunters. 0,12*2500=300 hunters. 300 Hunters are online on a full server at all times. Not all of them are max level at all times, and not all of them would solo farm DM, lets say one third of them do. Thats 100 hunters making 100g per hour, most of that is from vendoring trash. In other words 10000 gold is added to the server economy every-hour OUT OF THIN AIR Its far worse than controlling the devilsaur leathers, because those have to be sold to other players. If there is 2 players on a server, each with one gold, player A sells a devilsaur leather for 1g to player B, the purchasing power between players have shifted, but the server economy is still 2gold. If change is not implemented in stopping hunters and mages from solo farming DM, the economy will be completely inflated in a matter of a few weeks.Apoxxit97 15 Nov

I received a beta invite for Classic, and had also been an alpha and beta tester for the original game 15 years ago. That isn't unique; plenty of people in Northshire Valley had had the same experience, suggesting to me that active players who were Day 1 WoW gamers or had participated in the original tests might have gotten priority invitations to this one.
Nov 15 Professions Hey guys. Can you think of good items that you crafted and lasted for several levels at least? I have played on private servers and with 1.12 itemization, there was barely anything that I could use for even 3 levels. I have leveled up a leartheworker and only thing I remember using was Deviate Scale Belt. Yes, it's very decent and could last a few levels. But later, there are some blue gloves which are fine, but nothing brilliant. And "Guardian Belt"(+6 spirit, +6 stamina) is pathetic for a blue. I remember trying to craft Robe of power as Tailor for a mage but it wasn't that brilliant either, maybe you digress. :) Sure, at level 60, there are nice robes for tailors but before that, do you think using the 1.12 client diminishes the role of crafting professions for leveling? Imagine ability to craft some brilliant item(for each profession) at level 30 that would last full ten levels just like Warrior's Whirlwind Axe, would be decent, no? Warlocks also have similar quest for Enchanted Gold Bloodrobe, but for classes that don't have such class quests would be an enormous boost.Holylr34 Nov 15
15 Nov DM solo. A necessary change I'm an advocate for as few changes as possible, however something HAVE to be done about DM solo farming. DM solo farming was not a huge issue in 2005, because few people knew, and took advantage of the possibility. In 2018, and come 2019, it's a HUGE problem. The DM solo farm is well known and documented, with guides, and if nothing is done it will spread like wildfire. We dont know what the server populations will be, but lets start a thought experiment here; A full server have 2500 people online Hunter is the 4th most played class, behind warrior, mage and rogue. Data from private servers show a stunning consistency that around 12% of all characters are hunters. 0,12*2500=300 hunters. 300 Hunters are online on a full server at all times. Not all of them are max level at all times, and not all of them would solo farm DM, lets say one third of them do. Thats 100 hunters making 100g per hour, most of that is from vendoring trash. In other words 10000 gold is added to the server economy every-hour OUT OF THIN AIR Its far worse than controlling the devilsaur leathers, because those have to be sold to other players. If there is 2 players on a server, each with one gold, player A sells a devilsaur leather for 1g to player B, the purchasing power between players have shifted, but the server economy is still 2gold. If change is not implemented in stopping hunters and mages from solo farming DM, the economy will be completely inflated in a matter of a few weeks.Apoxxit97 15 Nov
A demo of the game was available at BlizzCon 2018, and was downloadable on home computers for anyone who purchased a BlizzCon ticket or virtual ticket. The servers became available when Opening Ceremony started at BlizzCon 2018 and was set to end on November 8, but was extended until November 12.[4] Players started at level 15, and the only available zones were Westfall and the Barrens.[5] It was based on patch 1.13.0, essentially patch 1.12.0 ported to a modern infrastructure. The first day of the demo, there was a playtime limit of a cumulative 60 minutes with a cooldown of 90 minutes, applied through the BlizzCon Exhaustion debuff.[6] The debuff was removed on the second day of BlizzCon 2018.[7]

You will see a resurgence of power leveling services, item trade services, and gold farming. Classic will have a fresh economy meaning for your average gold farmer time spent in classic is way more efficient. It will probably be worse than it was back in the day. Just look at the blizzard group finder on retail, littered with advertisements for m+ boosting websites. Disgusting. There will be so many gold farmers blizz probably won't be able to keep up. And this is what I truly fear because if the gold farmers start to win activision will step in and introduce wow token. And classic will die. 

Once we had our starting point, we began taking stock of what we had in the source code and what we could make available, which included restoring the original development database from archival backups. After stitching various key pieces together, we had a locally rebuilt version of Patch 1.12 running internally. The team could create characters and do basic questing and leveling—and dying, which we did many times. For testing purposes. Obviously.


14 Nov Classic WoW alternate timeline Hi, I'd love to hear some players opinion on the following: WoW Classic to be an alternate timeline. Players stay at level 60 and further content will be developed. Like different Raids, Dragon Isles, that weird Snail-Like-Building for possible old god content, Mount Hyjal, Dead Wind pass. Devs could implement all the old stuff that was planned for Vanilla wow. Deathwing... Azshara Battleground. Or staggering release of Expansions until Wrath of the Lich King? (Personally I wouldn't like that.. I'd rather stay in Vanilla forever... like until I'm a old man in my 80s dying while goldfarming or something.) Or just straight staying on the Naxx Patch forever? My favourite would be having a long time for the Naxx patch so more ppl can kill Kel'thuzad and then developing this unplanned content sounds like a very very awesome Idea for me. Having a level 60 alternate timeline to current wow would make it even better. Greetings Dandin (name of my first char ever :) )Payneprime34 14 Nov
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
15 Nov Everything wrong in Demo - listed Dont worry cuz its just a demo. We only saw 4 levels and 2 zones. LOL. General Issues -Items with random attributes show stats from newer expansions (Ex. Critical strike rating) (items rarely had crit or hit rating, and it was always in % example ) - Damage number fonts and size is from WoD, the original was from Vanilla->MoP (The position of the damage as well as the "pop" of crits is different aswell. Also, the CT was changed slightly even during MOP. In MOP the crits were still "poppy", but they always showed up in a uniform line) - Sharding (they have already made a statement about sharding. But i still note it here) - Example of sharding problems - https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyCrunchyBunnyPermaSmug - You can use meeting stones to summon people (added in tbc Patch 2.0.1 Source ) - You cant jump in water, you rise/swim when pressing space - Mob packs (ex. the defias camps on the mountain in Westfall) seems to be linked, so you cant pull 1 and run back, all 3 will follow forever, if 1 drops aggro they all reset (Not sure if this is blizzlike or not, Blizz would have to check the referance 1.12 client) The way you kite mobs in classic does not work in the demo, Probably a problem with the mob AI? - Cant abuse the walking animation to get a "moonwalk" Animation (would be sad to leave out such an iconic thing from the old engine) - Wand attacks cause you to face the target - You can use bnet to whisper members of the enemy faction - Might still be some problems where mobs spawn/error between the db/world. Reports of mobs spawning under the map - Mobs fanning is implemented incorrectly, they are walking backwards instead of turning around to adjust positions. - After using a flight path I was flagged as "player vs all" (like in gurubashi arena) and was able to attack players with the same bug - The graveyard at moonbrook, westfall doesn't have vultures. It should. - Rare mobs deals way less damage then they used too (hit like 25 some of them) - Chests has less green drops then they used too (40% of the time currently) - Spell Batching is not implemented because of the post cata engine. Big impact on PvP. - Kobolds at the Jangolode Mine in West fall, when low health and running away from you, run at much faster speed than even normal walking. They should walk away. - defias mobs in Jangolode mine (maybe other mobs as well?) Don't run back and attack again if they are low health and start running away from you. I think they should start attacking you again after ~8 seconds or so of running away - Corpses seem to despawn very quickly. I can kill a mob, loot it, and turn away and it'll be gone within 10 seconds. - Mobs sometimes spawn underneath terrain and glitch/evade--for example, hyenas sometimes spawned underneath hills near Centaur camps, and the Sludge Beast rare spawn near the Venture Co. tower in the Barrens would be stuck underground and evade combat. (Oddly, starting the nearby shredder escort quest caused it to suddenly become unstuck and teleport near the shredder, engaging in combat) - It seemed like mobs were dropping way too much money. I don't remember getting 30 copper per Westfall defias mob, but maybe the memory is just fuzzy. But I really shouldn't have had over a gold and be nearing 2 gold by level 16. So money drops, rewards, or vendor sell prices for items are way too high. Confirmed by old Client. - Farmer Saldean just dropped this line of dialogue on approach: "They might have run all the other farmers off, but the Saldean's will never leave Westfall." Pretty sure that's Cata dialogue. Never seen him talk before.Uauu105 15 Nov
I had the privilege of traveling to Irvine, California to play before the beta started and talk to the folks at Blizzard behind the project. They told a story of learning, enthusiasm, and cautious optimism in regards to WoW Classic, perhaps best articulated by J. Allen Brack, the recently appointed President of Blizzard Entertainment. He’s a thirteen-year Blizzard veteran who, until recently, had been with the WoW team since vanilla.
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